terminarne

Have a question about Italian grammar? Need a quick translation from Italian to English or vice versa? Post it here!
Post Reply
turkjey5
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:51 pm

terminarne

Post by turkjey5 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:00 pm

What purpose does "ne" serve in terminarne?
Vi ringrazio anticipatamente!!

Una vicenda meravigliosa: doveva assolutamente terminarne la lettura prima del rientro in città.

Geoff
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Geoff » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:46 am

It presumably refers to whatever it was that was being read.

User avatar
umberto
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:39 pm
Location: Italy

Post by umberto » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:20 pm

“Ne” is a pronoun, and, as every pronoun, its function is to replace names, even thoght it replaces names only if they are in some particular complements, 5 precisely. Here you have a list of the Italian complements (http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Categoria ... n_italiano): keep a watch over 5 of these, the “complemento d’abbondanza”, “argomento”, “oggetto”, “specificazione” and “origine”. These are the only ones that accept the pronoun “ne”. The greatest question ever put is: why the pronoun “ne”? why does it exist? In Italian the pronouns “lui”, “lei” and “loro” only refer to people, whereas “ne” refers to objects, inanimate beings and abstractions. So, “ne” simply plugs a gap.

ABBONDANZA (plenty; the preoposition is “di”)
La stanza è piena di libri = La stanza ne è piena (“ne” replaces “di libri”)


ARGOMENTO (subject, topic; the preoposition is “di”)
Non parlo mai di politica a tavola = Non ne parlo mai a tavola

If the subject were a person, you shouldn’t use “ne”, but “lui”, “lei” or “loro”

Parlo sempre di Luca perché è il più simpatico = Parlo sempre di lui perché è il più simpatico (in the informal language you may say “Ne parlo sempre perché è il più simpatico”: incorrect but popular)

OGGETTO (object; no preposition: it directly joins the verb!)
Here “ne” has the same meaning of the pronouns “li” and “le”, but, unlike them, “ne” expresses a sense of indeterminateness in quantities

Li termino = I finish them
Ne termino = I finish some of them

Quel parco ha pochi alberi = Quel parco ne ha pochi
Quel parco ha molti alberi = Quel parco ne ha molti
Quel parco ha alberi = Quel parco ne ha

“Ne” also expresses a sense of countable determinateness of something unknown:

Quel parco ha 19 alberi = Quel parco ne ha 19 (you know the park has 19 trees, but you don’t know what kind, where they are, you’ve never seen them; you only know the quantity)

“Ne” also expresses a part of something known

Quel parco ha 19 alberi: li ho visti tutti, e ne ho persino visti 2 giganteschi! (now the trees are known: you saw them all; the “ne” expresses a part of a whole)

ORIGINE (origin; the preoposition is “da”)
Dal tuo discoscoso si deduce che hai torto = Se ne deduce che hai torto

SPECIFICAZIONE (possession; the preoposition is “di”)
The “complemento di specificazione” accepts the “ne” only if it’s preceded by a complemento oggetto.

Leggo il libro = Lo leggo (I read the book = I read it)
Leggo una pagina del libro = Ne leggo una pagina (I read a page of the book = I read a page of it)
Non ho mangiato tutta la torta, ne ho lasciata una fetta per te ("ne" = della torta)

So, we finally got to your sentence, included here

Una vicenda meravigliosa: doveva assolutamente terminarne la lettura prima del rientro in città.

If I dropped the “ne” and brought back the name that “ne” was replacing, the sentence would sound like this:

Una vicenda meravigliosa: doveva assolutamente terminare la lettura del libro prima del rientro in città

Termino il libro = Lo termino
Termino la lettura del libro = Ne termino la lettura

As the “complemento di argomento”, if the name introduced by the complemento di specificazione were a a person, you should use the possessive adjectives

Guido l’auto di Carlo
Guido la sua auto (not “Ne guido l’auto”, even though someone would consider it correct!)

raphaelt
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:06 pm

Post by raphaelt » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:03 pm

Thank you for your robust description, Umberto — although I didn't post the question I certainly benefited from the reply!
OGGETTO (object; no preposition: it directly joins the verb!)
Here “ne” has the same meaning of the pronouns “li” and “le”, but, unlike them, “ne” expresses a sense of indeterminateness in quantities
Does this correspond then to the partitive, such as the partitive construction with "di"? For instance:

"Vorrei mangiare dei salatini" = I'd like to eat some of the snacks

or

"Vorrei mangiarne"

Would "ne" then replace a noun in the partitive in this way? It sounds like it *is* a partitive when used in this manner

User avatar
Peter
Posts: 2899
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, England

Post by Peter » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:03 pm

raphaelt wrote:Does this correspond then to the partitive, such as the partitive construction with "di"? For instance:

"Vorrei mangiare dei salatini" = I'd like to eat some of the snacks

or

"Vorrei mangiarne"

Would "ne" then replace a noun in the partitive in this way? It sounds like it *is* a partitive when used in this manner
Raphael, the short answer is yes. If you were asked if you would like to eat some of the snacks, then you could answer sì, vorrei mangiarne.

User avatar
umberto
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:39 pm
Location: Italy

Post by umberto » Sun May 01, 2011 7:34 am

Peter wrote:
raphaelt wrote:Does this correspond then to the partitive, such as the partitive construction with "di"? For instance:

"Vorrei mangiare dei salatini" = I'd like to eat some of the snacks

or

"Vorrei mangiarne"

Would "ne" then replace a noun in the partitive in this way? It sounds like it *is* a partitive when used in this manner
Raphael, the short answer is yes. If you were asked if you would like to eat some of the snacks, then you could answer sì, vorrei mangiarne.
Yes, that’s correct!!

Vorrei mangiare dei salatini (I’d like to eat some snacks) = Vorrei mangiarne (I’d like to eat some of them)

Vorrei mangiare i salatini (I’d like to eat the snacks) = Vorrei mangiarli (I’d like to eat them)

Tom S. Fox
--BANNED--
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:10 pm

Re:

Post by Tom S. Fox » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:13 am



Tom S. Fox
--BANNED--
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:10 pm

Re: terminarne

Post by Tom S. Fox » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:16 pm

I found another one:
— “Le presento il mio collaboratore.”
— “Dov’è?”
— “Qui. Il computer.”
— “Ah, lui! Il computer!”


— “I present to you my coworker.”
— “Where is he?”
— “Here. The computer.”
— “Ah, it! The computer!”

Tom S. Fox
--BANNED--
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:10 pm

Re: terminarne

Post by Tom S. Fox » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:39 am

Another one:
Ma il massimo del fastidio in Crazy Burger Tycoon è lui: il cono alla panna.

But the biggest nuisance in Crazy Burger Tycoon is this: the ice-cream cone.

User avatar
calum
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:46 pm
Location: Scozia
Contact:

Re: terminarne

Post by calum » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:40 pm

Hi Tom, I don't think you need continue posting random clips from YouTube.

I could argue that it is acceptable in English to conjugate the verb 'to be' as follows:

I was
you was
he/she/it was

we was
you was
they was

Indeed, such usage is commonly heard in London and I could show you endless YouTube clips as examples but it still wouldn't make it correct.

User avatar
Peter
Posts: 2899
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, England

Re: terminarne

Post by Peter » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:51 pm

Well said, Calum. There is a discussion on WordReference in which a native Italian lady said unequivocally that such usage as Fox insists on promoting was very much the exception to the rule. But I guess, as she is a native Italian, we should not take any notice of what she says, but instead abide by the word of God from Germany. :evil:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests