al/dal

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ladybird
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al/dal

Post by ladybird » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:39 am

Ciao di nuovo

I have some confusion on when to use al/dal, I will give you an example.

If I wanted to say: "I'm going to the doctors", I assumed it would be "vado al dottore".

I have heard that "dal" should be used when talking about a doctor, teacher etc.

Any advice please?
Life is for living and learning.

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Davide
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Post by Davide » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:30 am

Hi Angela - a medical doctor is often referred to as 'il medico' and so to say you're going to the doctor's you would say 'Vado dal medico' although you could also use 'dottore' and say 'Vado dal dottore'.

You use DA rather than A when you're talking about going to someone's premises or visiting someone's home:

'Vado dall'avvocato'
'Vado da Luisa'

A tends to be used when you're simply stating that you're going to a place in general:

'Vado AL cinema'
'Vado A teatro'
'Vado AL supermercato'

Hope this helps

Davide

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ladybird
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Post by ladybird » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:39 am

Davide wrote:Hi Angela - a medical doctor is often referred to as 'il medico' and so to say you're going to the doctor's you would say 'Vado dal medico' although you could also use 'dottore' and say 'Vado dal dottore'.

You use DA rather than A when you're talking about going to someone's premises or visiting someone's home:

'Vado dall'avvocato'
'Vado da Luisa'

A tends to be used when you're simply stating that you're going to a place in general:

'Vado AL cinema'
'Vado A teatro'
'Vado AL supermercato'

Hope this helps

Davide
Thanks for the clarification, that was a big help :)
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Roby
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Post by Roby » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:39 pm

Angela,

Davide has given you a great explanation.

Here is the link for this lesson

http://www.impariamo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760

Roby

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Re:

Post by Tom S. Fox » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:14 am

Davide wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:30 am
You use DA rather than A when you're talking about going to someone's premises or visiting someone's home…
Actually, you use da when you’re talking about going to a person:
Il maresciallo spalancò la porta del proprio ufficio: ‒ Si accomodi‒ disse, ‒ venga da me‒ … Il giovane percorse il corridoio evitando donne e detersivi a sua volta, ed entrò nell’ufficio del maresciallo, il quale chiuse subito la porta …

The warrant officer flung open his office door. “Come in,” he said. “Come to me.” … The young man walked down the corridor, alternately dodging women and detergents, and entered the office of the warrant officer, who immediately closed the door…
Chiamate il bambino in modo che sia motivato a scendere dal materassino: “ciao! Vieni da me per un abbraccio!”

Call the child in a way that motivates it to get off the mat: “Hi! Come to me for a hug!”
Schiacciò il pulsante dell’interfono e disse in modo appena percettibile: «Pierre, vieni da me

He pushed the intercom button and said, barely audibly, “Pierre, come to me.”
Due giorni dopo il compito gli fu riconsegnato. Sulla prima pagina vi era in rosso una insufficienza con un appunto che diceva: “Vieni da me dopo la lezione.”

Two days later, the assignment was handed back to him. There was a red F on the first page, along with a note reading, “See me after class.”
E domattina tu vieni da me, ti aspetto in ufficio.

And tomorrow morning you will come to me. I’ll be waiting for you at the office.
Presto, vai da lui mentre è distratta.

Quick, go to him while she’s distracted.
The only time you would use a to express motion towards a person in modern Italian is if you wanted to sound solemn:
Potere del cristallo di luna, vieni a me!

Moon Crystal Power, come to me!

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Peter
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Re: al/dal

Post by Peter » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:41 am

Uses of da/dal - taken from Modern Italian Grammar, co-authored by Anna Proudfoot and Francesco Cardo. At the time the book was published, Proudfoot was senior lecturer in Italian Studies at Oxford Brookes University and Cardo was a lecturer at the Liceo Scientifico E.Marjorana, Pozzuoli, Napoli.

From a place:

veniamo da Genova. - we come from Genoa
veniamo dall'Inghilterra - we come from England

To a place:

andiamo da Giorgio - we go to Giorgio's (home)
andiamo dal dentista - we go to the dentist's (surgery)

At a place:

stasera dormi da me - tonight you staying at my place
Lucia è dal direttore - Lucia is in the manager's office

Through a place:

il treno passa da Pisa. - the train passes through Pisa
è uscito dalla finestra - he went out through the window

Agent:

fu colpito da una palla - he was hit by a ball
amato da tutti - loved by everyone

Since:

lavoro da tre anni - I have been working for three years
viaggiamo dalle sette - we have been travelling since seven o'clock

The inference in these two examples is that I am still working and that we are still travelling.

Function:

spazzolino da denti - toothbrush
crema da barba - shaving cream

Cause:

morte da infarto - death from heart attack
stress da lavoro - work-related stress

Manner:

vita da cani - dog's life
giochi da bambini - child's play

Value:

moneta da due euro - a two euro coin

Usage with a verb

When used with a verb, da indicates something that must be done in a passive sense:

Ho molto da fare - I have a lot to do/ that must be done
Ci sono due lettere da scrivere - there are two letters to write / that must be written
Cosa prende da bere? - What would you like to drink
Vorrei comprare una rivista da leggere sul treno - I would like to buy a magazine to read on the train

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Re: al/dal

Post by calum » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:48 am

Peter wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:41 am

To a place:

andiamo da Giorgio - we go to Giorgio's (home)
andiamo dal dentista - we go to the dentist's (surgery)

Thanks Peter, that was always my understanding of the use of da; it referred to going to someone's place or premises, not to the person.

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Re: al/dal

Post by Tom S. Fox » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:36 am

calum wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:48 am
Thanks Peter, that was always my understanding of the use of da; it referred to going to someone's place or premises, not to the person.
The usage examples I cited prove the opposite. Besides, how else would you say that you are going to a person?

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Re: al/dal

Post by calum » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:52 pm

I'd say, "Vado a trovare Pietro" for example.

Or if he was down at the beach and I was at the hotel, I could say, "Vado laggiù a vederlo".

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Peter
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Re: al/dal

Post by Peter » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:30 pm

calum wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:52 pm
I'd say, "Vado a trovare Pietro" for example.

Or if he was down at the beach and I was at the hotel, I could say, "Vado laggiù a vederlo".
I agree the using trovare is a very acceptable alternative. I would also add that, as in so many aspects of Italian, context is so important, as is understanding which preposition should be used with any particular adverb. For example, when you want to say 'I live far from you' you would use lontano/a da - Abito lontano da te. One the other hand, when you say 'I live near you', you would very likely use vicino/a, which takes a - Abito vicino a te.

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Re: al/dal

Post by Tom S. Fox » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:14 pm

Peter wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:30 pm
calum wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:52 pm
I'd say, "Vado a trovare Pietro" for example.

Or if he was down at the beach and I was at the hotel, I could say, "Vado laggiù a vederlo".
I agree the using trovare is a very acceptable alternative.
Why do we need an alternative? Why not just say, “Vado da Pietro,” which is how Italians would normally say it?

Also, andare a trovare qualcuno means “to visit someone.” One could make a much better case that that means going to someone’s house. Not always, of course. It could also be, for example, a hospital.

Meanwhile, when Italians say, “vado a vederlo,” they are usually talking about a movie:
«Ti sto solo chiedendo che film hai visto. Se ti è piaciuto. Magari vado a vederlo anch’io».

“I’m only asking you what movie you watched. If you liked it. Maybe I’ll go see it, too.”
Alla fine lui ha ammesso che il film era piacevole e che si è divertito.
[…] Allora vado a vederlo anch’io.


In the end, he admitted that the movie was enjoyable, and that he had fun.
[…] I’ll go see it, too, then.
Se esce un film importante o che mi interessa, sì, vado a vederlo al cinema …

If an important movie comes out, or one that interests me, yeah, I go see it at the cinema…
Also, how would you replace da qualcuno in the following cases (and again, why would you even want to)?
— […] Portaci da lui!
— Non so dove sia.


“[…] Take us to him!”
“I don’t know where he is.”
Entrarono in un locale e videro un uomo circondato da donne e soldi, andarono da lui.

They entered a bar and saw a man surrounded by women and money. They went to him.
Finalmente per una volta i soldi sono andati da chi ne aveva bisogno

The money finally went to someone who needed it for once…
Hercules e Iolao tornano da Era con la preda.

Hercules and Iolaus return to Hera with their prey.
Incidentally, if you wanted to say that you are going to someone’s house, you would say, “a casa sua”:
Sono stato a casa sua ma lui non c’era.

I’ve been to his house, but he wasn’t there.
… sono stata a casa sua, ma non mi ha aperto!

…I’ve been to his house, but he didn’t answer the door!
Io ci sono stata a casa sua,ma era tutto chiuso.

I’ve been to his house, but it was all locked up.
… sono stato a casa sua ma non c'era.

…I’ve been to her house, but she wasn’t there.
… sono stato a casa sua, ma ho scoperto che non abita più lì …

…I’ve been to her house, but I discovered that she doesn’t live there anymore…
Sono stato a casa sua ma nessuno mi ha risposto.

I’ve been to his house, but no one answered the door.
Sono stato a casa sua, ma non l’ho trovato.

I’ve been to his house, but I didn’t find him.

I would also add that, as in so many aspects of Italian, context is so important, as is understanding which preposition should be used with any particular adverb. For example, when you want to say 'I live far from you' you would use lontano/a da - Abito lontano da te. One the other hand, when you say 'I live near you', you would very likely use vicino/a, which takes a - Abito vicino a te.
Yes, but we are talking about whether andare da qualcuno means “to go to someone” or “to go to someone’s house” (it’s the former).

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