Double object pronouns

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Devery
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Double object pronouns

Post by Devery » Mon May 28, 2007 3:52 am

Instead of posting in the ce la fara' thread, I decided to open up a new thread hoping that all will see!
My question in that thread was what ce la fara' meant. My question was answered (as always!) and it helped me when I came across this (and I want to share to help others)...

This is what you call a Double Object Pronoun(s)

and they go like this:

Pronouns: mi, ti, gli, le, Le, ci, si, vi, si
with
Indirect Object (pronouns): lo, la
and
Direct Object (pronouns): li, le, ne

So, we need to remember that the object pronouns always reflect the gender and number of the objects they replace. With that in mind, it goes like this:
(I'll start with the pronoun and then follow with the combination of the pronoun/object--since I can't make a table)
Mi, me lo, me la, me li, me le, me ne

Ti, te lo, te la, te li, te le, te ne

Gli, le, Le, glielo, gliela, glieli, gliele, gliene

Ci, ce lo, ce la, ce li, ce le, ce ne

Si, se lo, se la, se li, se le, se ne

Vi, ve lo, ve la, ve li, ve le, ve ne

Si, se lo, se la, se li, se le, se ne

*Also, when the same verb has two object pronouns, the indirect object always precedes the direct object.
Mandi la lettera al signor Rossi? Si', gliela mando.
Are you sending the letter to Mr. Rossi? Yes, I'm sending it to him.

Restituiscono i soldi alla signora? Si', glieli restituiscono.
Are they giving back the money to the woman? Yes, they are giving it back to her.

Also, after an infinitive, the final --e is dropped and the double object pronoun is attached at the end forming one word.

Posso sperirtela? Can I send it to you?

Vuole darcelo. He wants to give it to us.
*this material was taken from The Complete Idiot's Guide to Italian pg. 296


My mother in law gave me a good example tonight also. . .
Lei ha detto <<Daddy, te lo mette>>
She said to my son, "You're dad will put the diapers on you."


It would be nice if other could add to the list of examples.

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ladybird
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Post by ladybird » Mon May 28, 2007 12:14 pm

Ciao Devery

This was an area that drove me mad for a considerable time but thanks to the forum members, I finally got the hang of it!

Thanks for providing these examples, there are also some examples in the free lessons section and Keith has written about them in his blog.

http://italian-language-lessons.blogspo ... doppi.html
Life is for living and learning.

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Devery
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Post by Devery » Mon May 28, 2007 4:37 pm

I can't say I have the "hang of it," but at least now I will recognize them when I see them in the future!

I can see that it will take years for me to get a decent grasp of this language. :(

Tom S. Fox
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Re: Double object pronouns

Post by Tom S. Fox » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:44 am

Devery wrote:
Mon May 28, 2007 3:52 am
This is what you call a Double Object Pronoun(s)
That’s actually a rather amateurish name for it, because

a) “double pronouns” is really the name of an entirely different phenomenon (it’s when one pronoun replaces two others, as in, “Chi [=colui che] esce per ultimo, chiuda la porta.” — “The last one to leave closes the door.”), and

b) you can combine more than two pronouns:
A better name for it is “combined pronouns,” or better yet, “clitic clusters.”
Devery wrote:
Mon May 28, 2007 3:52 am
Indirect Object (pronouns): lo, la
Lo and la are both direct-object pronouns. Gli is the only example of an unambiguously indirect clitic pronoun. Mi, ti, ci, vi, le, and si can be both direct and indirect.
Devery wrote:
Mon May 28, 2007 3:52 am
Direct Object (pronouns): li, le, ne
Ne is not a direct-object pronoun, but a pronominal adverb.
Devery wrote:
Mon May 28, 2007 3:52 am
Mi, me lo, me la, me li, me le, me ne

Ti, te lo, te la, te li, te le, te ne

Gli, le, Le, glielo, gliela, glieli, gliele, gliene

Ci, ce lo, ce la, ce li, ce le, ce ne

Si, se lo, se la, se li, se le, se ne

Vi, ve lo, ve la, ve li, ve le, ve ne

Si, se lo, se la, se li, se le, se ne
This table leaves out a whole bunch of possible combinations (even ignoring those consisting of more than two clitics). To name a few:
Il Signor Sanguinetti mi indicò dove era l’uffizio, ed io mi vi recai immediatamente.

Mr. Sanguinetti showed me where the office was, and I headed there immediately.
La verità è che appena gli ti avvicini senti trasudare dalla sua pelle odore di sesso.

The truth is that as soon as you approach him, you can smell sex oozing from his skin.
Gli si espande il petto.

His chest expands.
… non le ci volle molto per convincermi a seguirla.

…it didn’t take her much to convince me to follow her.
Quando è stata l’ultima volta che vi ci siete recati ad acquistare dei prodotti alimentari?

When was the last time you headed there to purchase foodstuffs?
Lo si sarebbe facilmente scambiato per un barometro.

One might have easily mistaken it for a barometer.

Devery wrote:
Mon May 28, 2007 3:52 am
*Also, when the same verb has two object pronouns, the indirect object always precedes the direct object.
Not true. Case in point:
The actual order of the clitic pronouns is as follows:
  1. mi
  2. gli, le (dative)
  3. vi
  4. ti
  5. ci
  6. reflexive si
  7. lo, la, li, le (accusative)
  8. impersonal si
  9. ne

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