Italian Resources

Have a question about Italian grammar? Need a quick translation from Italian to English or vice versa? Post it here!
Emma Reese
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Postby Emma Reese » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:01 pm

Ho proprio trovato questo: http://www.walter.bz/podcast/

The stories come with free audio. Ho deciso di cominciare con Cappuccietto Rosso.

brob35
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Postby brob35 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:27 pm

hey guys iv been learning Italian for 6 months now and i did it through this program called rocket Italian now there are other programs like Rosetta stone but its soo freaken expensive so for all thoughs people trying to find the right program i do recommend this heres the link :]]

http://www.rocketlanguages.com/italian/premium/index.php?hop=0

kataphraktor
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Postby kataphraktor » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:13 pm

Potete utilizare questo vocabolario: http://dictionary.reverso.net/italian-english/

Inoltre c'e una caratteristica speciale, si puo' tradurre una proposizione intera, un testo intero, come Google Translate, ma i risultati non sono sempre accettabili. Comunque c'e un vocabolario complesso.

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Itikar
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby Itikar » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:11 pm

I want to share some old fashioned resources I found online, that are free, yet hold still something useful to the modern user:

http://archive.org/details/anewpracticalan16ahngoog
A nature method with several basic vocabulary that is not taught so often by modern courses, and also nice translation exercises.

http://archive.org/details/metodoberlitzpe00berlgoog
Italian old Berlitz course. It seems its copyright has expired.

http://archive.org/details/ollendorffsnewm00foregoog
Another method with several exercises and vocabulary.

Some of the expressions are of course archaic or obsolete. However they are good for reading classical Italian texts.

So this is really a blast from the past.
I would be very grateful, if you could please correct my English.

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calum
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby calum » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:57 pm

Itikar wrote:I want to share some old fashioned resources I found online, that are free, yet hold still something useful to the modern user:

http://archive.org/details/anewpracticalan16ahngoog
A nature method with several basic vocabulary that is not taught so often by modern courses, and also nice translation exercises.

http://archive.org/details/metodoberlitzpe00berlgoog
Italian old Berlitz course. It seems its copyright has expired.

http://archive.org/details/ollendorffsnewm00foregoog
Another method with several exercises and vocabulary.

Some of the expressions are of course archaic or obsolete. However they are good for reading classical Italian texts.

So this is really a blast from the past.


Hi Itikar,

those books make for some interesting reading, they are very old indeed and I was immediately struck by the formality of the example English texts: "Wouldst thou be contented, if thou hadst all these flowers?" Crikey, that's antiquated!

Even though it was written at the end of the 19th century I'd be surprised if many people spoke that way then. Having said that, I do like the style; I like the formality, the clarity. Thee and thou are no longer used in current speech, save for a couple of parts of the country where those elements persist in regional dialect (in Lancashire or Yorkshire, for example). I'm certain that nobody, anywhere, still uses wouldst, hadst, shalt.



Other odd things I noticed in the first book http://archive.org/details/anewpracticalan16ahngoog :

The letter J is included in the alphabet table. When did this fall out of favour?

Eglino for 3rd person plural e.g., eglino parlano = they speak.

Domani spelled dimani.
Ieri spelled jeri.
Domandato spelled dimandato.

Only the grave accent mark is used, even for words such as perchè, rather than perché.

Meco, teco, seco are a revelation to me; I've read some very old Italian books and have never come across these. Maybe I'll try some of them at my class tomorrow evening!

regards,
Calum

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Itikar
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby Itikar » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:17 pm

Actually J "i lunga" is still part of the alphabet, although nowadays is used very rarely for normal words, like for example fidejussione. It was abandoned after WWII, although until then it was an acceptable solution for semivocalic i.
Nowadays you can find it in toponyms (such as Jesi) or in some names and surnames.

Also stress conventions were slightly different, as you noticed. The practice of using acute was unattended sometimes.
You can notice it also in older Italian books, printed in the 50s, 60s, or rarely even until the 80s.

Don't know about dimandato/domandato and dimani/domani.

For what concerns "meco, teco, seco, nosco, vosco" they were the old comitative pronouns. Nowadays they are rarely used, even in literature. However you can easily meet them in older classical texts. They correspond to the Spanish conmigo, contigo.
Some Italian vernaculars still have comitative forms, for example "mirandolese" has "meg", "teg", etc.
http://eml.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial%C3%A ... agn.C3.ACa
I would be very grateful, if you could please correct my English.

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Itikar
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby Itikar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:34 pm

Sorry, yesterday evening I missed "eglino".

Indeed eglino was the old plural of egli. It originated from attraction of the verbal desinence -no.
Elli mangiano → ellino mangiano → eglino mangiano.
(if you wondered, yes, among the several third person pronouns of Old Italian there was also ello)
The same happened also for eglino's feminine counterpart: elleno
Elle mangiano → elleno mangiano. (elle was an old plural form of ella)

I have also looked for dimani/domani. Surprisingly dimani is listed simply as literary and not as obsolete. These are variants and etymology from the entry of Zingarelli dictionary:
domani o (lett.) dimane nel sign. A, (lett.) dimani, (lett.) domane nel sign. A
[lat. tardo demane, comp. di de- e mane ‘(di buon) mattino’, n. di manis, agg. parallelo di manus ‘buono’, che nelle espressioni di tempo ha assunto il sign. ‘di buonora’; la -i finale per analogia con oggi; 1258]


And this is from the first edition of the "Vocabolario degli Accademici della Crusca".
DIMANE, e DOMANE.
Definiz: Il giorno vegnente. Lat. cras.
Esempio: Bocc. g. 2. f. 2. Domane è venerdì, e 'l seguente di sabato.
Esempio: Bocc. Introd. n. 39. Faccendosi seguitare oggi in questo luogo, e domane in quello.
Esempio: Liv. dec. 1. E studiando Marco Claudio, che Icilio desse mallevadori di ritornare a dimane la pulcella a Corte.
Esempio: Albert. anche incominci ad esser dolente, e dai cagioni: allora prometti, e dai un'altro domane, e così, multiplicando in Domani, se ne va l'ora, e fugge 'l tempo.
Definiz: ¶ Per lo principio del giorno. Lat. mane, tempus matutinum.
Esempio: Dan. Inf. 33. Quando fu' desto, innanzi la dimane Pianger sentì.

As you can notice back then both words were written with final "e" instead of "i".

On the contrary dimandare is considered an obsolete or archaic variant of domandare. Probably it was etymologically closer to the Latin demandāre, so the form was likely considered more correct.

About thou and its addenda, I have always been fascinated by that pronoun. In fact when I was taught English pronoun in junior high I found very strange that tu and voi are almost identical in English. Out of curiosity: Which is the way you generally use to distinguish between plural and singular as a native? Do you use "you all" or other pronouns?

Also I find pretty annoying that modern grammar often omit any reference to thou, and when they do mention it, they omit its conjugation. It caused me a bit of trouble because it is easy to meet it in some literary contexts or in fiction. Among literature I met it for instance in Walpole's "The castle of Otranto" and in Sir R. F. Burton's "Arabian Nights" and... in the "Almighty Thor". :lol:

I also met it in a satyrical comic book where all Arab characters spoke using thou. Was there a reason for this? Maybe did Arabs speak English using thou in the past? Or is it related to Burton's work (in his tales all characters use thou).

Going back to Italian resources, there is another useful archaic book out there in the net:
http://books.google.it/books?id=fdUWAAA ... navlinks_s
This is the most comprehensive list of Italian verb forms I have met to this date.
It includes several ones used in classic Italian literature, and it has also an "erroneous" section where it lists also very archaic or dialectal forms, some of which can easily be met even today! For example in several places people, my grandparents for example, say andiede instead of andò, or also farebbi is a form used colloquially by some people from the Centre of the peninsula.

Sorry for the long post. :oops: Anyway I hope this information can be interesting.
I have also some other resources (also more modern ones :P) that I would like to share in the near future. So stay tuned for more news. :)
I would be very grateful, if you could please correct my English.

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calum
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby calum » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:13 pm

Itikar wrote:
About thou and its addenda, I have always been fascinated by that pronoun. In fact when I was taught English pronoun in junior high I found very strange that tu and voi are almost identical in English. Out of curiosity: Which is the way you generally use to distinguish between plural and singular as a native? Do you use "you all" or other pronouns?



I don't make any distinction, the context is often enough, and where there is ambiguity I have to clarify my meaning with a further explanation.


Depending on where you find yourself, you could encounter the following plural versions of you:
yous or youse (both rhyme with fuse): Scotland, Ireland
ye : Ireland
y'all (you all): southern United States

These are all informal and would not be used in formal speech or writing.


I mentioned previously that the use of thou continues in Lancashire and Yorkshire dialects, it also exists in the far northern islands of Orkney/Shetland. Otherwise, you'll only find it in archaic texts or in the bible.


Also I find pretty annoying that modern grammar often omit any reference to thou, and when they do mention it, they omit its conjugation. It caused me a bit of trouble because it is easy to meet it in some literary contexts or in fiction. Among literature I met it for instance in Walpole's "The castle of Otranto" and in Sir R. F. Burton's "Arabian Nights" and... in the "Almighty Thor". :lol:

I also met it in a satyrical comic book where all Arab characters spoke using thou. Was there a reason for this? Maybe did Arabs speak English using thou in the past? Or is it related to Burton's work (in his tales all characters use thou).


As I said earlier, we haven't used this way of speaking in well over a hundred years so its inclusion in a modern grammar book would surprise me if it were any more than a cursory explanation of what might be encountered in very old books.


It caused me a bit of trouble because it is easy to meet it in some literary contexts or in fiction. Among literature I met it for instance in Walpole's "The castle of Otranto" and in Sir R. F. Burton's "Arabian Nights" and... in the "Almighty Thor".

I also met it in a satyrical comic book where all Arab characters spoke using thou. Was there a reason for this? Maybe did Arabs speak English using thou in the past? Or is it related to Burton's work (in his tales all characters use thou)


I don't know. I guess it's simply that Burton wrote in that style. Unless Arab speakers have a similar T/V form of address and he was reflecting that.


regards,
Calum

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Itikar
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby Itikar » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:18 pm

Thank you for the explanations, calum. I find them pretty useful. :)
I would be very grateful, if you could please correct my English.

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Itikar
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby Itikar » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:56 pm

So let's go with some stuff about Italian pronunciation:

http://venus.unive.it/canipa/dokuwiki/d ... ?id=en:pdf
I already posted the link in another thread, but it is worth to copy it also here. This is the site of the leading scholar about Italian (and not just about Italian) phonetics. There is a lot of free material that, although a bit technical, can be really useful for either beginner, or advanced learners of Italian.

http://www.dizionario.rai.it/
The dictionary of orthography and pronunciation of RAI, for the use of actors and dubbers (but very good also for any learner). It is based on traditional pronunciation, the best suited one for classical Italian literature. Each entry is coupled with one or more audio tracks.

http://dizione.xoom.it/corsodizione.html
A good course to learn neuter or traditional pronunciation of Italian.
I would be very grateful, if you could please correct my English.

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calum
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby calum » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:09 pm

Itikar wrote:So let's go with some stuff about Italian pronunciation:



Thanks for these, I've added them to my favourites.

regards,
Calum

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Itikar
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby Itikar » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:26 pm

I waited a bit before posting this resource because I hoped the site that hosted it returned online.
Apparently "chi vive sperando..." has got yet another confirmation as a good proverb.

So here we are in the US there is a government organization called Foreign Service Institute, whose purpouse is preparing American diplomats. What interests us about such an organization is that it also produces language learning material (for diplomats of course) and, more importantly, that such material is in the public domain.

The site address was this:
http://fsi-language-courses.org/
But unfortunately it is offline from several months. :(

However I located the learning material for the Italian language:

Italian FAST (Familiarization And Short Term Training)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36515103/FSI- ... g-Volume-1
http://www.scribd.com/doc/95828830/FSI- ... g-Volume-2
Audio: http://fsi-dli.yojik.eu/FSI/FSI%20Italian/
This is a course designed for diplomats who need to develop a basic conversational proficiency in a short period of time. It is definitely good and better than many (expensive) commercial courses. :)

I found also the first volume of the programmed course:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/77818369/FSI- ... udent-Text
A mirror for the student text: http://archive.org/details/Fsi-ItalianP ... ourse-Text
Here the instructor manual: http://www.scribd.com/doc/77818709/Fsi- ... ors-Manual
Unfortunately I didn't find the audio for this latter.

However you can look for this material on file sharing websites since it is in the public domain and it is perfectly legal to download it from anywhere. :D
I would be very grateful, if you could please correct my English.

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Itikar
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby Itikar » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:01 pm

So the site is back! :D

fsi-language-courses.org/

And there are also two mirrors:
http://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/
http://fsi.antibozo.net/files/

Hope you enjoy the courses.
I would be very grateful, if you could please correct my English.

Jelly2
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Re: Italian Resources

Postby Jelly2 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:15 pm

Hi, everyone! English is difficult to learn, if you have any problems with it, for example, you cannot understand the rules of possessive nouns use, follow this link to be proficient in it http://royalediting.com/possessive-noun ... ial-points


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