Revisiting the Subjunctive mood

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calum
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Re: Revisiting the Subjunctive mood

Post by calum » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:44 am

Tom S. Fox wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:28 am
Actually, he was making a factually incorrect claim about prescriptive grammar, and I’m not one to let incorrect claims unchallenged, no matter how old they are, especially since people are still reading these threads. And besides, aren’t you glad you learned something new?
Hi Tom,

I've asked you already to consider the tone of your posts. Your abrasive style is not welcome here and neither is your condescension. Perhaps your approach is tolerated on other forums but it's not something I will put up with here.

You clearly have put a lot of effort and time into your study of Italian as a second language and you could be helpful to learners here, provided that you can fit in with the more relaxed style of environment we enjoy.

So please, keep it friendly and we'll all get along fine.

Carlo
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Re: Revisiting the Subjunctive mood

Post by Carlo » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:23 pm

I just wanted to emphasize that, as I wrote years ago, I don't like to fight over usage. I saw enough acrimony at WordReference. And the subjunctive has always been a bone of contention.
Many of the answers to topics we discussed here can probably be found in papers in academic journals which are not available to me.
Without entering the controversy, since I may not be an academic linguist but am still curious about usage, I wanted to ask Tom: the 'rule' you quoted about the indicative being required after the imperative would appear to apply only to a verb like credere, right? I'm saying this because after verbs like sperare, augurarsi etc the subjunctive would be required after the imperative and I had mentioned verbs indicating hope in my list so I wanted to make sure none of the learners reading this failed to use the subjunctive after the imperative here:

Spera/Augurati che tuo padre non scopra/abbia scoperto che hai fatto di nuovo filone!

Anyway what a forum like this one can provide, though we are not academic linguists and may get our facts wrong (which doesn't mean that academics are infallible, of course) is a useful comment for a learner such as the one by DT about "Mi creda: sono veramente mortificato" sounding better/more natural/more likely to be used by a native than your example, Tom. It's the kind of useful bit of info you won't find in textbooks.
On the other hand I particularly liked your examples magari era vero vs magari fosse vero (maybe it was true vs I wish that were true!).

A warm hello to Peter and Calum and to Dylan Thomas, whom I think I may have encountered before, if not here, at WRF.

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Peter
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Re: Revisiting the Subjunctive mood

Post by Peter » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:03 pm

Carlo, ciao, quanto buono lo è vederti qui. Un benvenuto caloroso.

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