the Italians

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ciccio
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the Italians

Post by ciccio » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:13 am

If I begin a sentence this way:
- The Italians are..
- The Spanish are...
- The Japanese are...
am I referring to the whole population of Italy/Spain/Japan, or to a specific group of Italian/Spanish/Japanese people?

Happy New Year
ciccio

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ladybird
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Re: the Italians

Post by ladybird » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:48 pm

ciccio wrote:If I begin a sentence this way:
- The Italians are..
- The Spanish are...
- The Japanese are...
am I referring to the whole population of Italy/Spain/Japan, or to a specific group of Italian/Spanish/Japanese people?

Happy New Year
ciccio
Come sempre, dipende dal contesto Ciccio :wink:

A very Happy New Year to you too :)
Life is for living and learning.

ciccio
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Post by ciccio » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:36 pm

OK, let's see three very simple examples:
- the Italians like spaghetti
- the Spanish like bullfighting
- the Japanese like sushi
Am I talking about three populations, or three specific groups?

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-Luca-
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Post by -Luca- » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:45 pm

ciccio wrote:OK, let's see three very simple examples:
- the Italians like spaghetti
- the Spanish like bullfighting
- the Japanese like sushi
Am I talking about three populations, or three specific groups?
Don't really understand what you mean , but I think To get it....If you begin with " The italians like..." it means that it's referred to the whole population. ( naturally, with the knowledge that ther might be a portion of italians who don't like spaghetti.) Anmyway all depends on the contest : if you are talking about some italians visiting your place, and you want to talk abou them, In that case that would be referred only to that group of italians.

For example, whne my Australians relatives come here to italy to visit us, we often say (for example) : " Gli australiani non mangiano il panettone con l'uvetta" ( in this case I'm not talking about all the whole population of autralians, but i'm talking about my realtives.

But isn't it the same for all the languages????

Anyway here it goes :

_ Agli italiani piacciono gli spaghetti ( è un kliscè :) )
_Agli spagnoli piace la corrida
_ Ai Giapponesi piace il sushi.
Italians don't know what Caesar salad is !!

ciccio
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Post by ciccio » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:52 am

Luca84 wrote:
ciccio wrote:OK, let's see three very simple examples:
- the Italians like spaghetti
- the Spanish like bullfighting
- the Japanese like sushi
Am I talking about three populations, or three specific groups?
Don't really understand what you mean , but I think To get it....If you begin with " The italians like..." it means that it's referred to the whole population.
hm I don't think that's correct, Luca.
You would say: Italians like spaghetti.

Geoff
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Post by Geoff » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:30 pm

ciccio wrote:
Luca84 wrote:
ciccio wrote:OK, let's see three very simple examples:
- the Italians like spaghetti
- the Spanish like bullfighting
- the Japanese like sushi
Am I talking about three populations, or three specific groups?
Don't really understand what you mean , but I think To get it....If you begin with " The italians like..." it means that it's referred to the whole population.
hm I don't think that's correct, Luca.
You would say: Italians like spaghetti.
You could say either "Italians like spaghetti." or "The Italians like spaghetti." There is little or no difference. Probably using "The" puts more emphasis on "Italians" but the difference is minimal. I would normally say "The Italians", for what it's worth.

ciccio
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Post by ciccio » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:02 pm

Thank you Geoff!

maelström

Re: the Italians

Post by maelström » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:10 pm

ciccio wrote:The Italians are...
Luigi Barzini wrote a book entitled "The Italians".
It is as correct as "Italians", as far as I know, but I am not an English native speaker.

jazzy
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Post by jazzy » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:22 pm

I agree, both are common, but it can also be used referring to a group of people like Luca suggested.

Eg You met a couple of french/ South African travellers at a guesthouse. Later on in the day you might ask have you seen the Frenchies/South africans. (Instead of mentioning their individual names.)
Per piacere correggetemi, sbagliando s'impara. :)

Roby
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Post by Roby » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:36 pm

jazzy wrote:I agree, both are common, but it can also be used referring to a group of people like Luca suggested.

Eg You met a couple of french/ South African travellers at a guesthouse. Later on in the day you might ask have you seen the Frenchies/South africans. (Instead of mentioning their individual names.)

Jazzy ... You would not say Frenchies. You would simply say... Have you seen the Italians, S. Africans or the two French /Frenchmen/women. not Frenchies

Frenchie or Frenchies is a derogatory term.

The plural form for more than 1 French person is French. There is not a s form like Italians , Americans and such.
Roby
"Per raro che sia, il vero amore e' meno raro della vera amicizia."

"As rare as true love is, it is not as rare as true friendship."
- François de La Rochefoucauld

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ladybird
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Post by ladybird » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:10 pm

Do you feel it's a derogatory term Roby? I don't, particularly in the context that has been provided.

Another term spings to mind, Aussies..short for Australians and also Brits for us folk from the UK!
Life is for living and learning.

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Peter
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Post by Peter » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:19 pm

ladybird wrote:Do you feel it's a derogatory term Roby? I don't, particularly in the context that has been provided.

Another term spings to mind, Aussies..short for Australians and also Brits for us folk from the UK!
I guess it's better than the term we often use for the people across the Channel. Reddit? :wink:

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ladybird
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Post by ladybird » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:56 pm

Peter wrote:
ladybird wrote:Do you feel it's a derogatory term Roby? I don't, particularly in the context that has been provided.

Another term spings to mind, Aussies..short for Australians and also Brits for us folk from the UK!
I guess it's better than the term we often use for the people across the Channel. Reddit? :wink:
Pete..you have no idea how tempted I was to mention that but I think that really WOULD have been derogatory! :lol:
Life is for living and learning.

Roby
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Post by Roby » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:23 pm

ladybird wrote:Do you feel it's a derogatory term Roby? I don't, particularly in the context that has been provided.

Another term spings to mind, Aussies..short for Australians and also Brits for us folk from the UK!

To be clear ... The way that it was used by Jazzy was incorrect.... There is no term such as Frenchies to refer to natives of France to my knowledge.. One uses either A Frenchman/Frenchwoman OR plural Frenchmen/Frenchwomen and to refer to more than 1 French person-mixed -the number French.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entr ... _us1249048
Frenchy- means characteristically French
Frenchies- referred to letters long ago.


http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1249047
A Frenchwoman -a female who is French by birth or descent

Aussies on the other hand is informal /slang and is widely used as is Brits. Yanks for Americans is often used as well ....


Peter... I am not sure what Reddit means . However, I am sure there are many other terms that have been used over the centuries for all nationalities I am going to name a few , but my no means am I being derogatory...I am just stating a point.

Spik, Wap, etc.
Roby
"Per raro che sia, il vero amore e' meno raro della vera amicizia."

"As rare as true love is, it is not as rare as true friendship."
- François de La Rochefoucauld

Roby
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:06 pm

Post by Roby » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:28 pm

ladybird wrote:
Peter wrote:
ladybird wrote:Do you feel it's a derogatory term Roby? I don't, particularly in the context that has been provided.

Another term spings to mind, Aussies..short for Australians and also Brits for us folk from the UK!
I guess it's better than the term we often use for the people across the Channel. Reddit? :wink:
Pete..you have no idea how tempted I was to mention that but I think that really WOULD have been derogatory! :lol:
Angie... I would not have been offended..... Spik, Wap, Jap, Chink, are just names that are used in a derogatory way to refer to people of a certain nationality. Every country has its own terms for everyone else.

Jazzy was trying to give the plural form for the French. It seems that there really is not one. Italian=Italians American= Americans ... Do you understand what I was trying to correct? The terms I used are what is used to pluralize French people like Italians Americans, etc.
Roby
"Per raro che sia, il vero amore e' meno raro della vera amicizia."

"As rare as true love is, it is not as rare as true friendship."
- François de La Rochefoucauld

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