Sapere used like piacere

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keithatengagedthinking
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Sapere used like piacere

Post by keithatengagedthinking » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:56 am

I have a question, and I can't remember if I've asked it before.

I'm curious about the usage of sapere used indirectly, like in this sentence that I found online:

Mi sa che oggi la bici non la prendo più.

I guess I don't quite understand what this construction means. A lot of my friends use it all the time, and while I can follow what it means, they have trouble explaining it. :)

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giuseppe
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Post by giuseppe » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:38 am

Keith I would translate Mi sa che simply as I think (that).
Sometimes I would use I feel instead: mi sa che devo chiedergli scusa -> I feel I should apologize to him.
Anyway, I find it difficult to say how 'elegant' this phrase is in Italian. Personally, I use mi sa only when I speak in dialect, just in case.
Last edited by giuseppe on Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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polideuce
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Post by polideuce » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:39 am

Non so da dove derivi questo genere di costruzione, ma è molto comune;
l'espressione "mi sa" ha più a che fare con "pensare" che non "sapere", perciò si dovrebbe rendere come "penso che la bici non la prenderò".

Farò qualche ricerca per essere un po' più preciso...

Giuseppe ha ragione, "mi sa" ha anche a che fare con "sentire"; anche io la uso più in dialetto...non credo sia una espressione corretta in italiano

Roby
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Post by Roby » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:30 am

Mi sa , pensare, and credere are similar in that they all have the meaning of one's opinion.

Mi sa = I have a feeling; a fear that something will happen; you know something is going to happen
Also mi sa= I am afraid so..
pensare= to think
credere=to believe

Mi sa che hai ragione- I have a feeling you're right, I think you're right, I believe you're right.

Note: mi sa is colloquial. It shouldn't be used in writing. It is used only when speaking.
Roby
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keithatengagedthinking
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Post by keithatengagedthinking » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:48 pm

Thanks everyone!

Carlo
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Post by Carlo » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:07 pm

I think we Italians are often too quick in assuming that a word or phrase which is only used colloquially is automatically incorrect or derived from a dialect.
"Mi sa che" is listed in all dictionaries without any usage labels so it can be safely assumed to be perfectly correct, non-regional standard Italian. It's just mainly confined to spoken usage, as Roby pointed out. I use it all the time, without any qualms.

De Mauro relates it to the use of "sa di" followed by a noun or an adjective:

7 v.intr. fig., sembrare, dare una certa impressione: una cortesia che sa di falsità, un affare che sa di losco | in loc.pragm. mi sa: mi sembra, ho l’impressione

Devoto Oli is more exhaustive:

10 intr. (fig.) Avere una certa impressione, credere, pensare: "Sarà tornato dalle vacanze?" "Mi sa di sì"; con che e l'indicativo: mi sa che ti sbagli; avere un certo timore o dubbio, temere: mi sa che ho sbagliato a parlargliene

I think a close equivalent in English is "I guess", which is also mainly used in speech.

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keithatengagedthinking
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Post by keithatengagedthinking » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:00 pm

Mi sa, ti sa, gli sa, ecc.?

It uses the same pronouns as piacere, right?

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Post by Carlo » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:19 pm

keithatengagedthinking wrote:Mi sa, ti sa, gli sa, ecc.?

It uses the same pronouns as piacere, right?
Hi Keith

As far as I know it is only used with "mi" and (not very often) with "ci". I've never heard it used with any other pronouns.

By the way, you will often hear "mi sa" with "tanto" or "proprio":

Mi sa tanto che non lo rivedremo

Mi sa proprio che hai ragione tu

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