Rrrrolling my R's... non posso :(

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Chris Corbyn
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Rrrrolling my R's... non posso :(

Post by Chris Corbyn » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:28 pm

I swear I've been trying this for weeks and I just can't get it. I tend to be the last to leave my house in the morning, so while I'm taking a shower I talk to myself (I know, I know). See, I can roll my R's in some words, typically where the R follows a consonant. But in words like giorno my tongue just doesn't move the right way... it's too tight to make the R sound after the Gio bit.

I know I'm not alone here but does it really matter too much if I say words like "correre" without a trill? In fact, it sounds awful when I say that word because the double-R is too silent and you can tell I'm struggling.

I guess I just have to keep pushing on and trying to do it.

If I sit down and just keep saying "correre" I can roll my R's sometimes, but it sounds really forced because I'm pushing so much air through my mouth, and if I throw the word "correre" into the middle of a sentence there's no way I can roll my R's.

I'm learning just how much I struggle with this sounds in Italian after signing up to LiveMocha and doing the beginner course.

The "gli" sound is hard for me to pronounce too, but I'm pretty sure I get that right at least!

I know you need to have a relaxed tongue to make this sound and I've actually noticed that when my mouth is closed because I'm not talking, I tend to be sucking to create a vacuum a little bit and have my tongue pressed tightly against the roof of my mouth... I think my tongue is tensed the vast majority of the time, which is probably why I find it hard to make this sound.

I've spoken to a few friends who've never even studied any latin languages and they can roll their R's just fine... how frustrating! :oops:

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brindge
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Post by brindge » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:44 pm

Hi Chris - I don't roll my R's either and I was told that in Northern Italy they don't roll their R's as much as in the South. Now maybe someone told me that so that I wouldn't feel bad, but maybe it's true??? My mom and dad who are from Italy don't really roll their R's that much...or perhaps they just lost that in the 50 years or so they have been in the USA :(

I'm glad you mastered the "gli" sound - I love to make that sound!! It makes me feel like I am speaking like a real Italian!!! (or at least I can keep telling myself that!!)

Buona fortuna con le tue lezione. In boca al lupo!!!

Barbara
tesorotreasures.etsy.com

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polideuce
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Post by polideuce » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:09 pm

Non fartene un problema; neppure io "arroto" la "r" :lol:
In alcune regioni si pronuncia la "r" in modo diverso da altre, quindi se non ci riesci non fartene un problema :D
Ho comunque imparato a pronunciare la "r" come si suppone sia in italiano standard, ma non uso mai questa pronuncia perchè mi sembra forzata nel mio modo di parlare e così continuo con la mia "r" moscia... :lol:

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Post by disegno » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:20 am

I have learned, when speaking Italian, to talk more "in the front of my mouth" and move my lips more in order to articulate Italian words better. Americans get lazy and tend to eat their words and talk from the back of the mouth. I have better success making the rolling r's and gli sounds, as well as hitting all the syllables in the long Italian words, when I focus on the front of la bocca and allow my tongue to staccato off the top of the rough of the mouth. You can also practice the neat little chin thrust upward that you often see Italians do, to help remind yourself to keep the words at the tip of your tongue and not at the back!
Chi canta a tavola e fischia a letto e' matto perfetto.

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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:23 am

disegno wrote:I have learned, when speaking Italian, to talk more "in the front of my mouth" and move my lips more in order to articulate Italian words better. Americans get lazy and tend to eat their words and talk from the back of the mouth. I have better success making the rolling r's and gli sounds, as well as hitting all the syllables in the long Italian words, when I focus on the front of la bocca and allow my tongue to staccato off the top of the rough of the mouth. You can also practice the neat little chin thrust upward that you often see Italians do, to help remind yourself to keep the words at the tip of your tongue and not at the back!
I think you could be onto something there! I lie a little... when I really concentrate I can make the rolling R sometimes, and it is certainly to do with the placement of my tongue at the front of my mouth (yet the vibration is further back than that). I've always thought that there was such a precise position the tongue needs to be in that it's near enough impossible to move my tongue into position quickly enough... but perhaps the key is to adjust the overall way I speak, rather than focusing only on the R parts.

~polideuce grazie. Credo che in spagnola sia una problema più grande.

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Peter
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Post by Peter » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:43 am

Nope, still can't do it..... grazie continues to come out as glatchier! :lol: :P

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polideuce
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Post by polideuce » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:41 am

in generale quali sono i suoni della lingua italiana che vi danno più problemi nella pronuncia?
Per quanto mi riguarda il suono anglico che più mi dà problemi, o mi ha dato, è il "th", ogni tanto mi dimentico come va pronunciato e quindi mi fermo e ripeto, oppure ne esce un suono che assomiglia più a una "d" o a volte una "f"...non è semplice.
Sono sicuro di avere altri problemi di pronuncia con altri suoni anglici ma al momento non me ne vengono in mente :)

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Post by Carlo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:27 pm

It's amazing (and admirable) what lengths people will go to in order to learn to roll their R's. Just take a look at all the different techniques listed on this site:

http://www.wikihow.com/Roll-Your-%22R%22s

Some of them are so complicated that I would soon give up if I were a learner.

Anyway, as polideuce says, rolling your R's doesn't matter all that much. Not pronouncing your R's perfectly will never cause misunderstandings.

One aspect of Italian pronunciation which I think many English speakers find difficult is double consonants. I know some English speakers who have lived here for many years and still pronounce "casa" and "cassa" as if they were the same word. And I think that getting this right is more important than rolling your R's properly.

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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:11 am

Woohoo! Roby mi ha probabile ascoltato su LiveMocha.com, ma adesso posso arrotare la erre :) Ci sono ancora qualche parole che non posso, ma credo di sto imparando un poco.

~disegno mi ha aiutato con la sua posta sopra. Si deve parlare dal in testa dalla bocca!
Last edited by Chris Corbyn on Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:15 am

Carlo wrote:One aspect of Italian pronunciation which I think many English speakers find difficult is double consonants. I know some English speakers who have lived here for many years and still pronounce "casa" and "cassa" as if they were the same word. And I think that getting this right is more important than rolling your R's properly.
Vero! Ma, per la doppia erre è difficile suonare addato senza arrotando la erre, secondo me.

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polideuce
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Post by polideuce » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:13 am

Quando si ha la "r" moscia per forza di cose il suono della doppia erre viene emesso in un modo che può sembrare, a chi pronuncia questo suono in modo più vicino all'italiano standard, buffo, ma non è nulla di complicato; basta solo imparare a pronunciare le doppie e la "r" non fa differenza :)
Se vuoi avere una pronuncia che sia conforme all'italiano standard allora devi necessariamente imparare ad arrotare la "r";a me ci sono voluti cinque anni di scuola superiore a Parma, durante i quali non ho fatto altro che passare molto tempo con persone con una "r" standard, per impararla a pronunciare e poi ho deciso che mi piaceva molto di più la mia "r" moscia.

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