come si dice"love comes first"

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samuel
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come si dice"love comes first"

Postby samuel » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:53 am

come si dice"love comes first"or"love first of all"in italiano?

Say a man is about to go to france with his son,but his son would not,because he has a female friend now and she prefer to stay at home.
so we can say to the man "love comes first".

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Ember
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Postby Ember » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:31 pm

Da noi si dice "l'amore prima di tutto". Credo :D
*** homo sum: humani nihil a me alienum puto ***

RPiesco
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come si dice"love comes first"

Postby RPiesco » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:02 pm

It sounds like you are using the Pimsleur tapes and the phrase that was used on that track is:

"l'amore innanzitutto"

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Quintus
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Re: come si dice"love comes first"

Postby Quintus » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:18 pm

samuel wrote:come si dice"love comes first"or"love first of all"in italiano?

Say a man is about to go to france with his son,but his son would not,because he has a female friend now and she prefer to stay at home.
so we can say to the man "love comes first".

"Love (l'amore) comes (viene) first (prima)". "L'amore viene prima", simply the same as in English. "Prima" is an adverb.
If the quotation is used as an answer to a question, the subject is moved to the end:
"Vieni con me in Francia?"
"No. Prima viene l'amore!"
But:
"Molti credono che i soldi siano la cosa più importante, ma per me l'amore viene prima" (many people think money is the most important thing, but in my opinion love comes first).

As to "love first of all", it is usable as well. See Ember's message.

Franco

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-Luca-
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Postby -Luca- » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:21 pm

son d'accordo con Ember : "l'amore viene prima di tutto" ---> "l'amore prima di tutto".

Potrei anche suggerirti qualcosa di più sofisticato che adotta un latinismo :

"in primis l'amore" . . . . ma....mi sembra troppo...arzigogolato :P
Italians don't know what Caesar salad is !!

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Peter
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Postby Peter » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:16 pm

-Luca- wrote:"in primis l'amore" . . . . ma....mi sembra troppo...arzigogolato :P


una nuova parole per me, arzigogolato! Forse nel contesto hai ragione, Luca! :) :)
A presto


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Postby Quintus » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:19 pm

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto. Tamen homo esse homini lupus dicitur, ergo "Homo sum, lupi nihil a me alienum puto" :)
No offense for wolves, beatiful and intelligent creatures!

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Quintus
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Postby Quintus » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:57 pm

-Luca- wrote:son d'accordo con Ember : "l'amore viene prima di tutto" ---> "l'amore prima di tutto".

Potrei anche suggerirti qualcosa di più sofisticato che adotta un latinismo :

"in primis l'amore" . . . . ma....mi sembra troppo...arzigogolato :P
I didn't know someone has to agree with someone else for you to be able to use words your own way :)

"L'amore prima di tutto" is ok (love first of all)
"L'amore viene prima" is ok (love comes first)

"L'amore viene prima di tutto" (love comes first of all) is universally known, widely used, high-sounding, mouth-filling, unnecessarily verbose and bombastic. That's why writers and theatre authors prefer "L'amore viene prima" in their scripts. It's obvious that it comes first "of all", not "of mailman". :shock:

As for the troppo arzigogolato (convoluted) "in primis l'amore", oh no please, I don't agree with you. I find it so nice. It could be easily extended to:
"In primis l'amore, in secundis la salute, in tertiis il denaro, quartum non datur e Quintus sono io". :roll:
Was: De arzigogolationibus in Catilinam tertiis.

Don't get offended! I'm joking! A joke a day keeps the doctor away. :lol:

Franco

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come si dice"love comes first"

Postby RPiesco » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:19 pm

Just wanted to do a quick repost to clarify what I said. The translation I wrote earlier is from the Pimsleur Italian program that Samuel seemed to be quoting from. It's the same tape that I had the same problem trying to understand. I looked everywhere for the correct pronunciation but couldn't find it. A friend of mine in Florence told me that what the woman was saying on the tape was: "l'amore innanzitutto". Everyone else is giving the other correct translations, but this is the translation I think Samuel was looking for. Can anyone tell me if they know this saying and what the exact translation for this is?
Grazie
Bob

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Quintus
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Re: come si dice"love comes first"

Postby Quintus » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:28 pm

RPiesco wrote:Just wanted to do a quick repost to clarify what I said. The translation I wrote earlier is from the Pimsleur Italian program that Samuel seemed to be quoting from. It's the same tape that I had the same problem trying to understand. I looked everywhere for the correct pronunciation but couldn't find it. A friend of mine in Florence told me that what the woman was saying on the tape was: "l'amore innanzitutto". Everyone else is giving the other correct translations, but this is the translation I think Samuel was looking for. Can anyone tell me if they know this saying and what the exact translation for this is?
Grazie
Bob

"Innanzi tutto" translates to "first of all". So "L'amore innanzitutto" is literally:

(1) "Love first of all"

Alternatively, since "innanzi tutto" = "innanzi a tutto" and "innanzi = before", "L'amore innanzitutto" is also translatable to:

(2) "Love before all (things)"

where "all things" is the Italian "tutto" = tutte(all) le(the) cose(things).
However my Hazon dictionary reads: "innanzi tutto" = "first of all" (prima di tutto); "above all" (soprattutto)

Hence (1) should be the closest translation, although I can't see a big difference between "Love first of all", "Love before all" and "Love above all".

It should be noted that Hazon doesn't have a entry "innanzitutto". It has two entries: "innanzi" as an adverb and "innanzi" as a preposition. So the right way of writing "innanzitutto" should be "innanzi tutto", preposition + noun.

Just to be clear, "L'amore innanzitutto" is a sentence we know and use normally. Others are:
La salute innanzi tutto
La vita innanzi tutto
La patria innanzi tutto
La religione innanzi tutto
Mia moglie innanzi tutto
I miei figli innanzi tutto
Innanzi tutto is good for everything. E.g.
Le dimissioni di Berlusconi innanzi tutto

--

Don't know if you use the voice synthesizer of the Google translator:
http://translate.google.it/
Type "l'amore innanzitutto" and click the loudspeaker icon. The result is EXCELLENT. If you type "l'amore innanzi tutto" instead the general intonation is wrong. That is normal. When we speak we pronounce "innanzi tutto" as "innanzitutto". But a machine can't be aware of what it's saying.

I'd be grateful to know if this helped.

Franco
Last edited by Quintus on Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RPiesco
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come si dice"love comes first"

Postby RPiesco » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:51 pm

Franco,
That was great. Thanks. Actually that is how my friend wrote it to me, with the seperation of the two words "innanzi tutto", but I found alot of examples on the net that used the combined version, "L'amore innanzitutto". And I actually use the googel translator a lot. It's not perfect by any means, but a great start.
Thanks again.
Bob

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Quintus
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Re: come si dice"love comes first"

Postby Quintus » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:40 pm

RPiesco wrote:Franco,
That was great. Thanks. Actually that is how my friend wrote it to me, with the seperation of the two words "innanzi tutto", but I found alot of examples on the net that used the combined version, "L'amore innanzitutto". And I actually use the googel translator a lot. It's not perfect by any means, but a great start.
Thanks again.
Bob

Bob,
Thank you for your feedback.
Only two notes more for all:

- "Il dizionario della lingua italiana" by Giacomo Devoto & Gian Carlo Oli (Le Monnier) confirms that "innanzi" is both an adverb and preposition, so one would write "innanzi tutto". I wasn't sure myself about that because I prefer "prima di tutto" or "soprattutto", but this is exclusively a question of personal taste. And it's also interesting to note that the principal meaning of "innanzi" is "davanti" (in front of, before in space) and "prima" (before in time).

- I would strongly suggest to everybody interested in the Italian language to have a look at the voice synthesizer which is embedded in the Google translator:
http://translate.google.it/
As a translator, Google is not that good. But as a synthesizer it works pretty well. Sometimes very well. You may have fun with it. I use it to hear English words. Try and see.

Franco

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Quintus
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Postby Quintus » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:07 am

Peter wrote:una nuova parole per me, arzigogolato! Forse nel contesto hai ragione, Luca!

I heard people saying "arzigogolato" at times here in Florence. I may have used it, but not so often. "arzigogolato" is the past participle of the verb "arzigogolare" . It can be used as an adjective as well. It essentially means "tortuous". "Un ragionamento arzigogolato" is "a tortuous/circuitous reasoning". "Arzigogolare" is to make a long, tortuous reasoning, often to no avail. Like the ones I make on this forum.

But your comment "una nuova parola per me" rouse my curiosity. The word is actually funny, a bit odd, and in a sense new for me too, cause I didn't know where it comes from. So I searched a etymological dictionary for it and here's what I've found. I decided to drop down this note because there is always somebody who likes to arzigogolate on words. :)

The ancient Greek verb "arkhaiologein" (infinitive) meant "to say (logein) archaic things (arkhaio(n))". And "to talk about archaic things" as well. Or, more extensively, to discuss/treat/study archaic things.
The ancient Romans borrowed the Greek verb which became "archaeologare" in Latin. You see, structure and meaning of the Latin verb are the same as the original Greek verb.

The Latin verb generated the modern English word "archaeology" (or "archeology"), "archeologìa" in Italian.
Incidentally, all English words terminating in "logy", "logìa" in Italian, contain this reference to the ancient Greek word "logos", which means "the talking", "discourse", but it's a particular kind of discourse, because it's "the discourse mastered and permeated by the Intelligence who created the Cosmos (which means Order)". Let's remember the word "logic". Thus, in a philosophical sense, "logos" meant God for the ancient Greeks.

But let's go back to our "arzigogolare". It comes from "archaeologare". These are the subsequent steps of its metamorphosis (approximately twenty centuries):

(1) archaeologare - Due to the northern phonetics:
(2) arsiologare - Due to a Tuscan correction of 's' into 'z':
(3) arziologare - Due to a Tuscan addition of a intervocalic "g" (to smooth the hard sound of "zio" => "zigo"):
(4) arzigologare - Finally, due to a onomatopoeic metathesis (golog => gogol) [1]:
(5) arzigogolare

Archaeological studies are often tortuous, entangled. Hence "arzigogolare" means "to develop a reasoning in a archaeological fashion"

Out of curiosity, I searched the net for "archaeologis/z/e" and "archeologis/z/e" but got in all four cases "The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary". So it seems that the ancient Latin verb "archaeologare" let no trace either into English (archaeology noun apart) and Italian, for we don't have a verb "archeologare". The unique remnant is this "arzigogolare".

Although "arzigogolato" is standard Italian, it sounds a bit funny, uncommon. It's too much "Tuscan". The common replacement for it is "tortuoso", tortuous, like in English. "Un ragionamento tortuoso" = "a tortuous reasoning".

"Che cosa stai arzigogolando?"
"Sto arzigogolando su arzigogolare"

Franco

--

[1]
Metathesis (linguistics), in phonology, a sound change that alters the order of phonemes in a word

RPiesco
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Re: come si dice"love comes first"

Postby RPiesco » Fri May 18, 2012 11:17 am

Franco I am trying everythiog I can to get in touch with you so now I am trying this. Can you post a reply?


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