I would like to learn dialect 'o nnapulitano.

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Chris Corbyn
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I would like to learn dialect 'o nnapulitano.

Post by Chris Corbyn » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:51 am

So it's officially a language as of recent, and it certainly has a very distinctive (and beautiful) sound, but where can I even begin to learn about this beautiful regional language/dialect?

I'm still learning standard Tuscan Italian, but I would like to start throwing in a little bit of basic dialect, purely for fun and because I am interested in the richness of the dialects used throughout Italy. It's also quite fun (for me) because not so many people bother to learn dialects, probably because they can't put them to use very easily these days. Neapolitan (nnapulitano) is very widely used however, and there is certainly a lot of it in use in music, so I'd love to have a basic understanding of it and how it differs from standard Italian.

I'll be visting Napoli and Sorrento in June, so I'd be interested to keep my ears open (so to speak) and try to hear it in use while I'm there.

Can anybody point me to any useful resources, that go beyond the extreme basics? I've tried to find textbooks and dictionaries to no avail. I suspect proper learning material will only just be starting to make an appearance since it was only recently officially considered to be a language.
Last edited by Chris Corbyn on Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:54 am

Also, learning resources written in Italian (bi-lingual dictionaries, textbooks, audio CDs), as opposed to be English would be fine for me. This would actually make it a little more interesting since I'd be improving my italiano at the same time as learning nnapulitano.

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Post by Geoff » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:32 am

Chris Corbyn wrote:Also, learning resources written in Italian (bi-lingual dictionaries, textbooks, audio CDs), as opposed to be English would be fine for me. This would actually make it a little more interesting since I'd be improving my italiano at the same time as learning nnapulitano.
I use the "Collins Sansoni" dictionary and find it excellent, although it would be too big to lug all the way to Italy. It isn't cheap (approx $130) but it is comprehensive. You can get it in Melbourne at Borders and probably the Foreign Language Bookshop in the city. Very likely at Scopo bookshop in Drummond Street Carlton too.

I am currently using the "Progetto Italiano" series of text books. They are entirely in Italian but I don't have a very high opinion of them, partly but not solely because they are incredibly sexist. If you would like to check them out, you can get them at Scopo. The language school I attended in Siena used the "Allegro" series and I found it much better than Progetto Italiano. I don't think you can get them in Australia but why not check them out when you get to Italy? Good bookshops should have them. They will certainly be vastly cheaper there than here too.

One book in English I can strongly recommend is "Using Italian" by Kinder and Savini, Cambridge University Press. It is not a full grammar book and expects you to be familiar with the basics. Instead, it concentrates on aspects of the grammar than confuse native English speakers. You can get it at Borders.

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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:51 am

Does this dictionary include the Neapolitan language? It seems to simply be an Italian-English dictionary from what I can understand. I'm pretty much down with the Italian language itself.

I'll drop into Scopo and ask the lady in there if she has any suggestions. I've only been in there once. I prefer the International Bookshop on Collins St since it has more romanzi, though they are so overpriced in there ;) http://ibs.it/ is where it's at if you want more affordable books, and a much better selection :)

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umberto
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Post by umberto » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:46 pm

I could only find these (not so many, I know):

Antonio Altamura, ‘Dizionario dialettale napoletano’, Napoli, Fiorentino, 1968

Pirro Bichelli, ‘Grammatica del dialetto napoletano’, Bari, Pegaso, 1974

Francesco D'Ascoli, ‘Lingua spagnuola e dialetto napoletano’, Napoli, Libreria scientifica, 1972

Antonio Altamura, ‘Il dialetto napoletano’ Napoli, Fiorentino, 1961

Ferdinando Galiani, ‘Del dialetto napoletano’; in appendice: Francesco Oliva, ‘Grammatica della lingua napolitana’, a cura di Enrico Malato, Roma, Bulzoni, 1970

Giacomo Marulli, ‘Guida pratica del dialetto napoletano’, Bologna, Forni, 1972


As you can see, the most recent one was published in 1974… I have no idea where you could find them: I suppose they’ve been sold-out for 20 years at least, so you won't easily find none of these in Italy either. I’ll keep on checking… something's going to come ou!

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Ember
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Re: I would like to learn dialect nnapulitano.

Post by Ember » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:09 pm

The fact is that it's difficult to learn a dialect when you don't live in that place. You can learn the grammar, ok, but it's not enough, since dialect is a language that comes out from the heart. If your heart is neapolitan, I mean if you really feel neapolitan, only then it's easy to learn.

If a student from another place comes in my town and start talking our dialect, it would be really strange for us! Maybe nice, maybe funny but strange.
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Post by Peter » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:21 pm

Ella makes a good point. I have a very dear friend, actually one of my former Italian teachers who comes from the Caserta area of Campania, and for her PhD tackled the Pentamerone of Giambattista Basile. In effect, Lorenza had to learn not just Neapolitan but the Neapolitan of Basile's time (the 1500s). However, whatever the period, the Neapolitan dialect differs to the Casertan one, just as, no doubt, the dialect prevalent in Urbino differs to that in Ancona or Ascoli Piceno, both of which are also in Le Marche, and this is true all over the peninsula; dialects can be , and often are, extremely local.... like the way the same basic food dish is cooked differently in towns only a few miles apart! :D

I wish you good luck, Chris!

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umberto
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Post by umberto » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:53 pm

In effect, you can study a dialect (it’s a language from any point of view), but most of it involves everyday life, manners and folklore… You said it’s just for fun: you can try, then you’ll tell us (not in napoletano!!) :!: :D

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Post by Geoff » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:58 pm

Chris Corbyn wrote:Does this dictionary include the Neapolitan language? It seems to simply be an Italian-English dictionary from what I can understand. I'm pretty much down with the Italian language itself.

I'll drop into Scopo and ask the lady in there if she has any suggestions. I've only been in there once. I prefer the International Bookshop on Collins St since it has more romanzi, though they are so overpriced in there ;) http://ibs.it/ is where it's at if you want more affordable books, and a much better selection :)
Sorry Chris, I missed the fact that you were after a Neapolitan dialect dictionary. I don't think you will find one in any Australian bookshop. You can pretty well forget everything I said.

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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:45 am

Thanks guys. I get that I won't really be able to "learn" the language fully, but what I'm interested in is having a basic understanding of the grammar and very basic vocabulary; not because I want to put it to practical use, but because I'm curious.

I found a page here: http://it.wikibooks.org/wiki/Napoletano

I'd actually already seen this page, but didn't realise there is a "Contents" section at the right hand side of the page. I started take notes last night on basic aspects of the grammar and listening to some words on forvo.com. I must say, the differences between napoletano and italiano are quite considerable, though you can clearly see their roots are in the same place.

Sure, I can share my thoughts as I learn if you like. I won't be going into great depths with this study; like I say, I just want to have an understanding of how it differs from Italian.

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Post by Roby » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:08 pm

Hi Chris,

If you take a look at this link, on the second page of the thread , you will find a post on Dialect Dictionaries . There is one for the dialect of Naples.


http://impariamo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1823
Roby
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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:36 am

Thanks Roby, I'm looking there now :)

I've been chipping away at the grammar (no real vocab yet) for about an hour or so each day. Despite my initial impression that it's wildly different to Italian, the more I read, the more I realize it's really not very different. Also interesting to me was the fact I raised a question here regarding the use of "voi" in formal speech when speaking to an individual. I was told this was deprecated standard Italian, but I see it is very much the correct way to speak formally in napoletano (adress the subject as vuje). In some ways it's like napoletano got stuck in time while the tuscan dialect evolved fairly quickly.

Given the lack of content online I plan to start writing a little bit about it (just as I learn, but only once I have a basic grounding) on my blog. I think I should have studied linguistics at university :P This stuff fascinates me for some reason.

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Ember
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Post by Ember » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:52 am

You're right, it's not very different infact italians can watch neapolitan comedies and understand them pretty well, while it's really difficult to understand some other dialects.
If you go down in Naples, you can hear people talking each others saying "voi", also children while talking with other children. So it's not a matter of formality, it's the language itself...
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polideuce
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Post by polideuce » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:29 am

Un po' di dizionari on-line:
http://www.medivia.it/italiano/dizionario/index.htm
http://www.lastoriadinapoli.it/vocab.asp

...e ne ho pescato uno edito da Intra Moenia:
http://www.lafeltrinelli.it/products/97 ... iano/.html

Questa la pagina della casa editrice:
http://www.intramoenia.it/riscoprire.php
sono solo 297 pagine, non molto direi, ma questa casa editrice pare avere molto materiale al riguardo :)

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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:39 am

Grazie Gabriele!

Dato che quello non è caro, l'ho appena comprato. Se non sia molto buono, non c'è troppo perso.

Sto scrivendo delle lezioni sul mio blog, ma voglio trovare i più informazioni che c'è possibile prima di pubblicarle. Il problema, come lo vedo io, è che non sia un sito comprensivo per la lingua, così devo cercare a poco a poco, raccogliendo gli informazioni così posso capirlo io, poi posso riscrivere cose ho imparato (un po' come l'uomo che gestisce www.ilgur.com per l'italiano).

A dopo!

Chris

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