use of anche

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italianStudento
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use of anche

Post by italianStudento » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:09 am

hii here is a line

"ho cercato anche tra i libri usati"

i know anche means too / also. but where do you use it in the sentence.
what is the rule for anche and tra in sentence formation.
tra means between why is it used here.
i think the meaning of the line is "i certainly also have used books"
is that right ?

thx

biagio
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Post by biagio » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:40 am

"ho cercato anche tra i libri usati"

Some context would be of help, here, but I'll try to make something out of what you provided us with.

First of all, "cercare" means "to look for", so "ho cercato" may mean "I looked for", "I've looked for", "I've been looking for".

So, you were either looking for a book, and not having found it among the latest published books on display in the bookstore, you've even looked for it among the used ones, OR, you were looking for something unspecified and, not having found it elsewhere, you've even looked among your used books.

anche=even
tra=among

Hope this helps.

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Davide
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Post by Davide » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:03 pm

Well I would say that this simply means 'I've also looked (or searched) in the used books' (perhaps meaning 'second-hand' books)

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Dottore No
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Post by Dottore No » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:51 am

I'm with Davide here.

Remember, you always need to have a bit of "fuzzy translation". Tra means between, but also "among". So I read your sentence as: "I also looked among the used books".

Adverbs generally follow the verb, as was the case in your sentence.

So: °I will also go to Egypt" would be: Andrò anche in Egitto.

When certain adverbs are used in compound tenses, they go between the two verb forms, like this:

"I have always preferred red wine" is translated "Ho sempre preferito il vino rosso".
Slainte e cent'anni a tutti!

italianStudento
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thx

Post by italianStudento » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:11 pm

thx so much guys for responding..i understand it now..

italianStudento
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translation

Post by italianStudento » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:57 pm

1)
"ma pare che chi ce l'ha se lo tenga stretto!"
'mi pare che' = in my opinion
does it make a diff if it is 'ma pare che' or 'mi pare che'
also after that 'chi ce ... '
ce = there is
what does the entire line mean?

2)
"per me era una sorta di rifugio in un mondo spappolato"
me ? i've learnt of mio / mia => is 'me' just a condensed form
era = period
i can only make some sense "sort of refugees in a crushed world"

thx

Geoff
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Post by Geoff » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:10 am

1. "ma pare che chi ce l'ha se lo tenga stretto!"

But it seems that whoever has it will hold it tightly.

Ma = but, mi = to me (in this context) so yes, it does make a difference. You could have said "ma mi pare che ..." in which case it would translate as "but it seems to me that ...".

"ce l'la" means "has it". It is technically bad grammar as the "ce" is not grammatically required and is, I suspect, only there to make it sound better to Italian ears and also to avoid confusion (if one just said "l'a" it could be confused with la or là . Note the common use of "ce l'ho" = "I have it".

2. "per me era una sorta di rifugio in un mondo spappolato"

For me it was a sort of refuge in a crushed/soggy world.

Presumably spappolato has some idiomatic, figurative use here but i don't know what it is - "broken" perhaps.

"era" is the imperfect tense, third person singular form of the verb essere. This tense, among other usages, is used to describe things the way they were in the past and therefore here means "was".

italianStudento
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Post by italianStudento » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:50 pm

thx heaps...
another query
1) "mio padre aveva 47 anni e dopo circa due mesi porto in casa a pranzo una nuova tipa"
from what i can understand 'my father has 47 yrs and after about 2 months offered in house a ?? is this right. what does it mean by father has 47 yrs?

2) "Uomo di altri tempi, non aveva la delicatezza dei papa di oggi: mi manteneva agli studi e il padrone era lui"
man in other time did not have a delicate dad of today : i maintained in studies and the master was he ? is that right.

3) "Finite gli studi, mi disse di trovarmi un lavoro. Cosi feci:"
i finished my studies, i was told to find a job. cosi feci?

thx

Benjameno
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Post by Benjameno » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:59 pm

1. "mio padre aveva 47 anni e dopo circa due mesi porto in casa a pranzo una nuova tipa" = My father was 47 years old, and after about two months he brought a new lady-friend over to the house for dinner.

2."Uomo di altri tempi, non aveva la delicatezza dei papa di oggi: mi manteneva agli studi e il padrone era lui" = A man whose mannerisms seemed to belong to some other time, he did not have the delicacy (tenderness) that the fathers of today do. He had supported me financially throughout my education, and so he was unquestionably in charge.

3. "Finite gli studi, mi disse di trovarmi un lavoro. Cosi feci." = Once my studies were finished, he told me to find myself a job. So I did."


Listen, I don't mean to sound discouraging, but if you are trying to absorb Italian by osmosis, immersing yourself in literature intended for native speakers without any formal grounding in the language, you will progress very slowly and cause yourself a great deal of frustration. I can see from your attempted translations that even the most rudimentary differences stump you, such as the Pan-Romance tendency to express the idea of being ___ years old as "having ___ years". You should really consider taking an introductory course- whether in a classroom or with a textbook - before plunging headlong into native material.

italianStudento
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Post by italianStudento » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:17 am

hii.. i understand what u're sayin..i started learning from a book which teaches the basics. i can understand whats written a bit from knowledge a bit from common sense..the reason i try and do a literal translation from english is to be able to form sentences in italian..and understand more about the grammar..
i've learnt more reading 5 lines of written material than what i've been tryin to learn for past 2 mths..and there are no classrooms around so i hv to rely on online material..
thx for the help..

italianStudento
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object pronoun

Post by italianStudento » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:02 am

"telefono al mio ragazzo"
ans : " Gli telephono
did you telephone my boy
i telephoned him
shouldnt it be lo telefono since the noun is singular y r we using indirect obj pr

"che cosa portate a vostro fratello?"
ans : che cosa gli portate?
what did you bring our brother?
what did you bring him ? same question shouldnt it be lo portate

what do you mean by "anna da il numero a maria"

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Davide
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Re: object pronoun

Post by Davide » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:01 pm

italianStudento wrote:"telefono al mio ragazzo"
ans : " Gli telephono
did you telephone my boy
i telephoned him
shouldnt it be lo telefono since the noun is singular y r we using indirect obj pr

"che cosa portate a vostro fratello?"
ans : che cosa gli portate?
what did you bring our brother?
what did you bring him ? same question shouldnt it be lo portate

what do you mean by "anna da il numero a maria"
The verb 'telefonare' takes an indirect object which is why it is 'gli telefono'. Italians literally say 'I telephone TO him'

Its the same with portare - you 'portare qualcosa A qualcuno' so it's again an indirect object.

The last sentence means 'Anna gives the number to Maria' - Here, Maria is an indirect object. In this case, English is the same - the verb 'to give' takes an indirect object, even though we often don't express it in English. 'I give the book to John' (indirect object is explicit). 'I give John the book' (John isn't explicitly expressed as an indirect object, even though he IS) in other words, this sentence is literally 'I give TO John the book'


I think you need to do some work on direct and indirect object pronouns and which verbs require which - get them sorted in your head and you'll find things much easier.

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Peter
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Post by Peter » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:22 pm

I agree with Davide; you really need to spend time with the pronouns. Get to grips with the direct and indirect ones first, then move on to the others. Have a look at this page, which explains the various pronouns, and click through to the more detailed explanations for both direct and indirect pronouns: http://www.gwc.org.uk/ModernLang/hotpot ... nouns.html. At the moment, do NOT worry about reciprocal and disjunctive pronouns. It is more important that you understand the common ones and how to use them. :)

italianStudento
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Post by italianStudento » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:52 pm

thx guys..peter the link u provided is awesome..i've been tryin to understand the different verb types and tenses and this has helped me immensely.. :P

italianStudento
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query

Post by italianStudento » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:55 am

will avere and essere verb
the conjugation for passato prossimo
sono stato/a ho avuto
sei stato/a ... hai avuto
in english it would be
i was/have been i have been
you were/have been You have been

is that right. is it the same?

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