Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

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Jokenzy
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Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Jokenzy »

Ciao a tutti. I'm new to italian and I'll be grateful if someone can help me with my italian. One on chat would be appreciated via yahoomessenger or BBM. Grazie mille
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-Luca-
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by -Luca- »

Ciao Jokenzy!
Welcome to the forum!
Tell us something about you : where are you from? how long have you been learning italian? Why did you choose to learn this language?
You'll find very kind people here happy to help you.
Italians don't know what Caesar salad is !!
Jokenzy
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Jokenzy »

Ciao luca, I'm from Nigeria n I'm a graduate. Ho imparando l'italiano per tre mesi. I like the language and my desire to learn a foreign language made me choose it. I also hope to visit someday.
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-Luca-
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by -Luca- »

Great !
I see you're very motivated. That's good. Are you a self-teacher? Or, do you have an Italian tutor?are you going to an Italian school?
I need to know it because the basics are very important to learn a new language. You need to study the grammar first. then all come out by itself ;)

What's the main language in Nigeria?
Italians don't know what Caesar salad is !!
Jokenzy
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Jokenzy »

Ciao Luca, devo dice uno grande grazie per Il tuo tempo. Sono grato. I'm a self teacher. Got my materials from an online site.
Well, the official Nigerian language is English cos we are multi-tribal bt amongst the tribes major ethnic languages are IGBO, YORUBA and HAUSA.
Do tell me a little abt u
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-Luca-
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by -Luca- »

You can find a lot of stuff on the web. The important is to learn the grammar. As you know, all the languages are "grammar based", so spend a lot of time studying it ;)
Verbs,tenses, nouns,pronouns,articles, prepositions. Do a lot of exercises, and even if they look boring and sometinmes simple, just keep working on it. Once you have got a good grammar knowledge, you then begin speaking a little bit. But grammar first :)

I am Italian, and speak a bit of english. Very far from perfect but I never give up ! I've studied this wonderful language at school. Wish , one day, to take some english (private) lessons. They'd be very helpful. I enjoy watching videos on youtube! Watching them (english language of course) I try to improve the listening.
On youtube you can find Britain,American,or Australian english accent and...believe me....the hardest to understand is the britain english. Wish one day to go to England too :)
Italians don't know what Caesar salad is !!
Jokenzy
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Jokenzy »

Quello e bello Luca. It's good how you are chasing your passion. Mi piace quello. I pray that you accomplish it.
Well, I have the necessary materials to aide me. I started with frasi simplici, consonants and vowels, articoli e dimonstrativi, pronomi personali, essere and avere verbi, parole utile(e, o, sempre, spesso, mentre etc), question words and a host of others.
However, I feel the need to relate more in italian so that I can know for sure that I'm assimilating. Especially in italian construction. But like you said, learn enough grammar. Easy does it.
Peter
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Peter »

-Luca- wrote:On youtube you can find Britain,American,or Australian english accent and...believe me....the hardest to understand is the britain english. Wish one day to go to England too :)
Sarai molto benvenuto qui, Luca, ma dimmi, perché pensi tu che il BE sia il più difficile. Come inglese ho molti problemi capire quello che dicono gli americani (e anche i canadese e i sudafricani) - ci sono programmi sul tv dove mi chiedo se usiano gli americani una lingua totalmente diversa!! :) Allora, perché? Sono tutti i varii dialetti (per la voglia di una meglio parola)? Devo ammettere che ci sono volte quando non capisco io veramente qualcuno da Birmingham, o da Liverpool o da Newcastle e ogni tanto è difficile capire alcuni scozzesi (Calum escluso!). Oppure, è lo spelling (l'ortografia)? Quale? Mi interesserebbe di sapere? :D
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Quintus
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Quintus »

Hi Peter,

I learnt everything by movies, web and radio. So, as one who never talks with anybody, my impression is that my comprehension depends strongly on the person who speaks, all other conditions being possibly equal, which is anyway a circumstance that never happens. On average, BE is a bit easier for me than AE. Just to set a figure, let's 100 = perfect comprehension and 0 = total incomprehension for a speech where each phrase appears as a complete, though not concluded, portion of it. When I listen to BBC, my comprehension oscillates between 20 and 60. When I watch American videos (eg. on You Tube), I am between 5/10 and 40. But sometimes, albeit seldom if ever, I happen to understand both American or British speakers at 80/90. These tend to speak slowly, sometimes with a tone of importance/official character and keep words separated from each other.

It's not a question of speed only but also of vowels. Very difficult to explain. Let's say so. On average, British speakers sound to me as if they arranged the vowels among the consonants in a way that none of them gets a particular stress compared to the remaining vowels of a word. I mean, not such a stress to weaken, shorten or slur the other vowels. The BE speech sounds moderately stressed and pretty rhythmic to me, while the American one sounds richer of stresses and "pitch peaks". Though BE may generate phonetic liaisons that are very hard for me to untangle. The BE vowels also shows a little more resemblance to Italian vowels. For example the British "o" has almost always the same sound as the Italian one, while in AE it may be pronounced as an italian "a", sort of.

But, as I said at the top, it depends mainly on the speaker.

Franco
Peter
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Peter »

Quintus wrote:But sometimes, albeit seldom if ever, I happen to understand both American or British speakers at 80/90. These tend to speak slowly, sometimes with a tone of importance/official character and keep words separated from each other.
I have the same problem with Italian, to be honest. I remember one evening during an evening class, the tutor, as she often did, got us to come up with pros and cons regarding Italian, and one lady said: "gli italiani parlano troppo velocemente", to which I said "sono d'accordo"!! I think it is the same in any language; if it is spoken well, properly, then it is easier to understand. My first teacher - now no longer with us God Rest her Soul - would read passages that she had got the class to read beforehand, and it was such a delight listening to her. I have to say, because of the lack of opportunity to practice conversation, my comprehension of what some of my Italian friends say nosedives to zero!!
Quintus wrote:It's not a question of speed only but also of vowels. Very difficult to explain. Let's say so. On average, British speakers sound to me as if they arranged the vowels among the consonants in a way that none of them gets a particular stress compared to the remaining vowels of a word. I mean, not such a stress to weaken, shorten or slur the other vowels. The BE speech sounds moderately stressed and pretty rhythmic to me, while the American one sounds richer of stresses and "pitch peaks". Though BE may generate phonetic liaisons that are very hard for me to untangle. The BE vowels also shows a little more resemblance to Italian vowels. For example the British "o" has almost always the same sound as the Italian one, while in AE it may be pronounced as an italian "a", sort of.
You are right, Franco. I take it you are aware of what is called a 'schwa'. This refers to the way we BE speakers pronounce words ending '-er'. Take my name - in BE, it is invariably pronounced Pee-tuh, with no stress at all in the second syllable (indeed the stress is more on the first syllable). My Canadian and American friends pronounce it Pee-tair, which a definite emphasis on the second syllable.

Not so sure about how we pronounce vowels, though. Certainly, we can pronounce the letter o in a way that you simply would not do - a very rounded sound that is so different to the closed o sound in, say, fosse. Even the open o sound of, for example, andiamo, is nothing like our rounded o; I do recall years ago some guy came to Italian lessons and simply could not, or would not, pronounce a word like andiamo other than with the full-on rounded o sound. I have an Italian friend named Claudio, and sometimes just to wind him up will greet him with 'ciao Claudi-oh'! There are differences too in how we pronounce the letter e; indeed the word the can be pronounced with a long e sound or with the schwa sound. One uses the long e when the next word starts with a vowel - simply because it is simpler and sounds so much better.
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umberto
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Re: ciao a tutti. need help

Post by umberto »

Jokenzy wrote:Piacere io bisogno qualcuno a aiutarmi con Il mio italiano. Non sapere piu l'italiano ma saro piacere a migliorare. Here is the english version of the above statement just incase: Pls I need someone 2 help me with my italiano. I don't know much but I'l like to improve. Private chat will be greatly appreciated. On yahoo messenger or bbm. Grazie mille
Ciao,

Piacere io bisogno qualcuno a aiutarmi con Il mio italiano. Non sapere piu l'italiano ma saro piacere a migliorare.
Piacere, ho bisogno di qualcuno che mi aiuti con il mio italiano. Non so più l’italiano, ma mi piacerebbe migliorare.

This is your sentence the way I would write it. This is the right place to improve: benvenuto!

In Italian to need is not transitive: the preoposition “di” is required:
I need someone = Ho bisogno di qualcuno

“ho bisogno di qualcuno che mi aiuti con il mio italiano”: "aiuti" is the subjuctive form of “aiutare”. Here you need the subjuctive because “qualcuno” is an indefinite pronoun: it doesn’t refer to someone particular. Do you remember the poor Whitney Houston? She sang “I wanna dance with somebody who loves me”; well, in Italian it’s “Voglio ballare con qualcuno che mi ami”, where “ami” is the subjuctive of “amare”, just because she didn’t look for someone particular.

Sorry for the silly explanation, but I think that sometimes an exemple may be clearer than any academic lesson!
Jokenzy
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Jokenzy »

Ciao Umberto,
Grazie per il vostro tempo per correggere il mio costruzione di parole. Mi gratto.
I'm doing my best and I hope to improve. I believe I will. Could you help me out with the use of preposition and its contractions? I sometimes find it difficult using them.
Grazie mille
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Quintus
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Quintus »

Jokenzy wrote:Could you help me out with the use of preposition and its contractions? I sometimes find it difficult using them.
Hi Jokenzy,

It would be difficult for anyone to deal extensively with the use of prepositions here. Due to the limited number of our basic prepositions each of them is overloaded with many different meanings. The basic prepositions are:

di (25), a (16), da (17), in (13), con (9), su (8), per (20), tra (or fra) (10), verso (3), lungo (1), durante (1), mediante (1)

The number in brackets is the number of meanings that each preposition can take. The ones above are proper (or pure) prepositions, ie they work exclusively as prepositions. There are others which are used also as adverbs and/or conjunctions. These are called improper prepositions. For example:

tranne (or eccetto) also as a conjunction
sopra also as an adverb
sotto also as an adverb
dopo also as an adverb and conjunction
senza also as conjunction
oltre also as an adverb
secondo also as conjunction
circa also as an adverb

There's one third group of prepositions which are expressed by a locuzione preposizionale (prepositional phrase). A prepositional phrase is formed by means of one adverb, one or more pure prepositions and in some cases one noun. There are many of these in English as well:

p. = preposition, a. = adverb, n. = noun

davanti (a.) a (p.) [in front of, before]
vicino (a.) a (p.) [next to, close to]
a (p.) causa (n.) di (p.) [because of]
a (prep.) proposito (noun) di (prep.) [about, with regard to]
riguardo (n.) a (p.) [with regard to]
conformemente (a.) a (p.) [in conformity with]
in (p.) accordo (n.) con (p.) [in accordance with]
per (prep.) mezzo (noun) di (prep..) [by means of]
a (p.) guisa (n.) di (p.) [like]
in (p.) quanto (a.) a (p.) [as to, as for]

So, when it comes to prepositions, things may not be so simple. I would advice you to consult a good dictionary. Once you have decided about the verb to use, there you will find examples about how to use it, or ask the forum when you have difficulties with specific contexts. As to the articles and prepositions combined with definite articles, I posted a summary here:

http://www.impariamo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5323
Jokenzy wrote:Grazie per il vostro tempo per correggere il mio costruzione di parole. Mi gratto.
Mi gratto? That would mean "I scratch myself". Did you mean something like "vi sono grato"? :D :D

Ciao,
Franco
Jokenzy
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Re: Migliorare l'italiano con messenger: chi mi aiuta?

Post by Jokenzy »

Ciao,
Thanks for the preposition lesson quintus. @Franco :D I wanted to say, sono gratto(I'm grateful) :D
Non e davvero facile a imparare, soprattutto da se stessi. Va tutto bene
Ciao
Jokenzy

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