To get something?

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Alan Newcastle
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:11 am
Location: Gateshead, England

To get something?

Post by Alan Newcastle »

Help on the following will be apprieciated! To say in italian "if she gets the job she has to live in milan" in italian is it correct to say "se ottiene il lavoro ha abitare in milano" ?

Ciao.
Peter
Posts: 2902
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, England

Re: To get something?

Post by Peter »

Alan Newcastle wrote:Help on the following will be apprieciated! To say in italian "if she gets the job she has to live in milan" in italian is it correct to say "se ottiene il lavoro ha abitare in milano" ?

No, on several counts. So far as 'get a job' is concerned, it is more correct to use trovare lavoro (or un/il lavoro). Also 'she has to' is the same as 'she must', so you have to use dovere. In addition, when referring to a town or city, you must use a not in, which you use for countries or regions, which would include counties, states, provinces. Also, as it is a se clause, you should use the subjunctive mood. And when you use the singular subjunctive, you must use the subject personal pronouns So...

Se lei trova il lavoro deve vivere a Milano.

Hope this helps, but if you have any questions, just shout!
Alan Newcastle
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:11 am
Location: Gateshead, England

Re: To get something?

Post by Alan Newcastle »

Thanks so much for the reply Peter. Really hepful explanation. I had it in my mind that abitare was the verb to use regarding where someone resides.

Cheers.
Geoff
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: To get something?

Post by Geoff »

Peter wrote:
Alan Newcastle wrote:Help on the following will be apprieciated! To say in italian "if she gets the job she has to live in milan" in italian is it correct to say "se ottiene il lavoro ha abitare in milano" ?

No, on several counts. So far as 'get a job' is concerned, it is more correct to use trovare lavoro (or un/il lavoro). Also 'she has to' is the same as 'she must', so you have to use dovere. In addition, when referring to a town or city, you must use a not in, which you use for countries or regions, which would include counties, states, provinces. Also, as it is a se clause, you should use the subjunctive mood. And when you use the singular subjunctive, you must use the subject personal pronouns So...

Se lei trova il lavoro deve vivere a Milano.

Hope this helps, but if you have any questions, just shout!
Sorry Peter but I have to contradict you on the subjunctive bit. For starters, "Se lei trova il lavoro deve vivere a Milano." is entirely in the indicative. Did you mean trovi instead of trova?

Furthermore, you only have to use the subjunctive with a se clause when it is a speculative or counterfatual hypothetical situation, in which case you use the imperfect subjunctive for the clause that contains the se (protasis) and the conditional for the other clause (apodosis). In other words, "Se trovasse il lavoro, dovrebbe vivere a Milano." - "If she were to get the job, she would have to live in Milan." On the other hand, if you are making a bald statement of fact about something that may or may not happen ("If she gets the job she will have to live in Milan"), you would say "Se trova il lavoro, dovrà vivera a Milano". You can also use the present as an implied future tense (i.e. deve for dovrà) as Alan has done.

Finally, I don't see the need for a subject pronoun in this case. If the subject wasn't clear from the context, you would need it with the first and second person singular when using the imperfect subjunctive because the subjunctive form is trovassi in both cases but otherwise it does not seem necessary.
Peter
Posts: 2902
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, England

Re: To get something?

Post by Peter »

Geoff wrote:Sorry Peter but I have to contradict you on the subjunctive bit. For starters, "Se lei trova il lavoro deve vivere a Milano." is entirely in the indicative. Did you mean trovi instead of trova?!
Yes.... trovi is correct!
Geoff wrote:Furthermore, you only have to use the subjunctive with a se clause when it is a speculative or counterfatual hypothetical situation, in which case you use the imperfect subjunctive for the clause that contains the se (protasis) and the conditional for the other clause (apodosis). In other words, "Se trovasse il lavoro, dovrebbe vivere a Milano." - "If she were to get the job, she would have to live in Milan." On the other hand, if you are making a bald statement of fact about something that may or may not happen ("If she gets the job she will have to live in Milan"), you would say "Se trova il lavoro, dovrà vivera a Milano". You can also use the present as an implied future tense (i.e. deve for dovrà) as Alan has done.
You may well right, Geoff! The problem is that such expressions as speculative, counterfactual hypothetical and protasis were never used when I was learning the language. I have enough problems trying to understand what they mean in English!! :D Also, Alan hadn't used dovere; he had used ha abitato, which simply means he/she lived. I agree that the future tense can be used as well as the present.
Geoff wrote:Finally, I don't see the need for a subject pronoun in this case. If the subject wasn't clear from the context, you would need it with the first and second person singular when using the imperfect subjunctive because the subjunctive form is trovassi in both cases but otherwise it does not seem necessary.
Whilst I would agree it's not always necessary, I don't think it's a bad idea to use them. There are times when one needs to emphasise the context. I simply took the view that Alan was a beginner, and the pointing out such rules does no harm. :D

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